The Value of Mentorship: A Conversation with Caroline Davis and Milena Casado By Kyla Marshell

Saxophonist Caroline Davis and flugelhorn player Milena Casado, who have both been participants in mentorship programs geared toward women and gender expansive musicians, share how mentorship has affected their growth as artists, and how they find ways to mentor other musicians, regardless of age or career status.

Kyla Marshell: You’ve both participated in mentorship programs—Mutual Mentorship for Musicians (M3) and Next Jazz Legacy, among others—in which you had women mentors. How has being mentored by another woman shaped your development? 

Caroline Davis: I participated in a program where Geri Allen was my mentor. She gave me a lot of confidence about my playing and encouraged me to explore different ways of rhythmic expression. She really helped me to become the improviser that I am today. There was a time when we played a concert at Dizzy’s, and we played a couple of my songs. I had just started writing music. And she was very encouraging. She was like, I was sitting in the audience, and I noticed that everybody was loving your composition in these ways. And that just really helped me feel more confident in myself.

MC: I feel it’s so important to have people that can support and motivate and show you different things not only about music, but about life. And just the fact of sharing, I feel is so important, especially my case, from women. For me, Terri Lyne Carrington, Kris Davis or even Meshell Ndegeocello through the Next Jazz Legacy program—they have been super supportive and encouraging, and I feel all of us, we've gone through similar things sometimes. So it's good to have their perspectives on how to deal with certain things. 

I remember when I was young and seeing Terri Lyne with esperanza [spalding] and Geri Allen and playing and I was amazed by them. I was like, Whoa, I want to be like them one day. And now being mentored by Terri, it's just amazing. 

KM: Do you all consider yourselves to be mentors—whether peer mentors or to younger artists?

CD: I think younger people can mentor older people. I think that’s one useful thing about M3, giving opportunities to people of all ages. The music industry in general, there’s a problem of ageism. And I see it with the older women, especially in jazz, who I know who have explained to me how they feel. I’m excited about the other directions of inclusivity and equity in this music, and not discounting [people like] Monette Sudler, Sumi Tonooka, Michele Rosewoman, Toshiko Akiyoshi. Our elder people. 

KM: What are some ways that you try to mentor other women or marginalized musicians when you encounter them?

MC: I try to be as vulnerable as I can and just really share what I’ve learned, be there for other people and be truthful to myself. Accept myself so that I can share that with other people and encourage them. So I don’t usually think about the practice like mentoring, but just really being real and sharing everything I know or everything that my mentors had told me. 

CD: I recently ran a jam session at Nublu for jaimie branch’s family. And in that situation I specifically reached out to a couple women who I knew would be interested in coming, but were maybe nervous to come in that situation. I invited them up on stage, and I just tried to just make them feel welcome. Those situations in particular can feel overwhelming for people who don't go often. 

KM: What do you still want to see change in the jazz landscape for women or other gender-expansive musicians? 

CD: One, a sense of showing up for people. Being present in spaces that maybe people don’t usually go to, or going to a show where you don’t know anyone in the band. And that requires a little bit of discomfort on the part of the person going. And the second thing is this focus on hierarchy and fame. I think it’s detrimental overall to the community at-large. 

MC: I wish we could all coexist in the same environment. Like race, gender, doesn’t matter. That we could all just be there together, supporting each other, encouraging each other, and sharing. Mentorship is so important because at the end of the day, every musician has gone a little bit through the same stages. It’s about just receiving and giving to the next cycle. It’s a beautiful circle, somehow. It’s like what someone told me, I’m now able to share with someone else and it never stops and just continues.